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La Crosse's Death Plans

22:33 recording · EN · 3 speakers

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Executive Summary AI
  • Betty and George Phillips of La Crosse, Wisconsin, both healthy, have long since filed advance directives refusing machines, feeding tubes and CPR, and Betty has even arranged her own funeral.0:36
  • 96% of the people who die in La Crosse have planned for their death, against about 30% of adults nationally, and neighbours notice and nag the one family on the block that has not.1:56
  • Medical ethicist Bud Hammes started the change in the 1990s at Gundersen Health System's dialysis center, where only two of 60 patients had directives, by training nurses to ask every patient again and again.6:52
  • La Crosse spends less per Medicare patient than any of the 306 regions in the Dartmouth data, partly because people asked ahead of time, like dying farmer Glenn Muehlenkamp, mostly answer stop.15:46
  • Gundersen CEO Jeff Thompson says the program loses the hospital money because there is no billing code for it, and the 2009 death panels uproar kept it out of the national health reform bill.17:21

Brief overview

La Crosse, Wisconsin made talking about death routine, so 96% of residents who die have planned it.

  1. Asking again and again makes the question routineNurses in La Crosse ask at every visit and pre-op, so by the end of life nobody is facing the choice for the first time.
  2. Planning for death lowers health care spendingOne quarter of health care spending is on the last year of life, and La Crosse spends the least per Medicare patient in the country.
  3. The savings go to Medicare, not the hospitalGundersen runs the program at a loss because advance care planning has no billing code and cuts its own revenue.

Questions this recording answers

5 questions, each answered where it is said
How many people in La Crosse plan for their death compared with the rest of America?

96% of the people who die in La Crosse, Wisconsin have planned for their death. Across the country about 30 percent of adults have done some end-of-life planning, and even among severely ill people it is only about half.

Answered around 1:56
Who started advance care planning in La Crosse and how?

Bud Hammes, a medical ethicist at Gundersen Health Systems, began in the dialysis center, where only two of 60 patients had directives. He trained nurses to ask every patient; after one nurse went first, others followed and the other La Crosse hospital asked for the training too.

Answered around 8:08
Why does La Crosse spend less on health care than anywhere else?

In the Dartmouth data La Crosse spends less per Medicare patient than any of 306 regions. One quarter of health care spending is on the last year of life, and when people are asked ahead of time most choose to stop aggressive treatment, which costs much less.

Answered around 15:46
Does the hospital make money from advance care planning?

No. CEO Jeff Thompson says Gundersen loses money on the program: there is no billing code for advance care planning, and the savings go to Medicare and insurers. He keeps it because it is the right thing for patients and the community would revolt if it were removed.

Answered around 17:21
What happened when this idea was proposed nationally in 2009?

Gundersen helped write a provision paying for advance care planning in the health reform bill, but it was attacked as death panels, with Sarah Palin warning of rationing. The law passed without it but rewarded providers that cut spending, so many now ask Bud Hammes how to do it.

Answered around 19:14
Key Quote

“96% of the people who die in La Crosse have planned for their death.”

— La Crosse's Death Plans, at 1:56
Key Quote

“I'm from the America where talking about death is like talking about sex.”

— La Crosse's Death Plans, at 4:25
Key Quote

“The moral distress that these families were suffering was palpable.”

— Bud Hammes, La Crosse's Death Plans, at 7:35
Key Quote

“Stop, because I've seen that where they're just there.”

— Glenn Muehlenkamp, La Crosse's Death Plans, at 14:44
Key Quote

“There's no billing code for advanced care planning.”

— La Crosse's Death Plans, at 17:21
Key Quote

“We spend money on a program that ultimately will decrease our revenue stream.”

— Jeff Thompson, La Crosse's Death Plans, at 18:05

Cite this

“La Crosse's Death Plans.” https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/02/28/283444163/episode-521-the-town-that-loves-death. Transcript summary by WhipScribe, https://whipscribe.com/transcript-pages/la-crosse-s-death-plans.html.

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